Doug Mason

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Posts by Doug Mason

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  8

  Imagine

  by Doug Mason in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  mary gives birth to a girl..

  jesus shares the lead in his ministry with a woman..

  half of jesus leading disciples and half of his apostles are women..

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  Doug Mason

  oppostate,

  John Lennon's words are either a hymn or an international anthem.

  Doug
• 
  8

  Imagine

  by Doug Mason in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  mary gives birth to a girl..

  jesus shares the lead in his ministry with a woman..

  half of jesus leading disciples and half of his apostles are women..

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  Doug Mason

  Mary gives birth to a girl.

  Jesus shares the lead in his ministry with a woman.

  Half of Jesus’ leading disciples and half of his Apostles are women.

  Jesus addresses God as “Heavenly Mother”.

  The bulk of New Testament documents are written by a woman named Pauline.

  Half of the Rabbis throughout history are women.

  A woman holds a position on the Watch Tower’s Governing Body.

  A woman becomes the Pope.

  Half of the Watch Tower’s Governing Body are women.

  Christians remove sexist and misogynist expressions from their Holy Scriptures.

  Adam comes from Eve’s rib.

  Trinitarians believe in Mother, Daughter, and her Holy Spirit.

  God becomes an atheist.

  Doug
  
• 
  13

  Was Jesus a hypocrite?

  by James Mixon in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  jesus spoke of loving your enemy, matt.5:43, luke 6:26, but look what is said in.

  mark 16:51,16 "go preach but who ever does not believe his ass will be set on fire".. i don't think that is good news.

  hell if that is love, what the hell is hate.

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  Doug Mason

  James,

  These three Gospels - Mark, Matthew, and then Luke - were written by different people at different times for different readerships for very different purposes.
  

  No NT writer, including these, either saw or heard Jesus. They relied on the traditions that were passed on in their respective communities.

  So it should not be any surprise that they disagreed with one another.

  The initial Christians were not documenters (probably not literate). They fully expected the Coming and God's Kingdom to take place shortly, so why write? Even Jesus - who shared their expectations - did not write anything.

  The earliest NT record comes from Paul, and he does not describe Jesus' life or his words. He too expected Jesus to "come" during his lifetime, and his letters address short-term local issues based on the final days of Jesus' life.

  The Gospels started to emerge after Paul's death, after the destruction of Jerusalem. "Luke" was not even a Jew, His Gospel is as unreliable as his book of Acts.

  An interesting direction of research would be to study scholarly works that seek to determine which of the words ascribed to Jesus were likely genuinely uttered by him. I have seen estimates that 25% can be considered as genuine.
  

  Doug
  
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  7

  The mythical meaning of the “Lord’s Supper” was revealed to Paul by Christ, not by any man

  by Doug Mason in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  the following is from: christian beginnings, geza vermes pages 91, 92, 98.

  paul inherited from his predecessors a second great cult practice, the communal meal, referred to as the breaking of the bread as well as thanksgiving or eucharist in greek.

  as in the case of baptism, paul supplied a new meaning to the community meal and turned it into an imitation and repetition of the lords supper.

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  Doug Mason

  half banana,

  I touch only briefly on Paul's Hellenism on pages 76-77 of my Study, "The Babylonian Exile shaped the future" (mentioned in the above Thread: : http://www.jwstudies.com/The_Babylonian_Exile_shaped_the_future.pdf). As I write in my Study, I skip across a lake of deep, moving waters, barely touching the surface.

  I am very tempted to flesh out your idea on Paul's non-Jewish influences, so I would appreciate any scholarly references. I already have Maccoboy's book and another whose name is just outside the reach of my memory,

  Take Paul out of the NT (and those writings by his adherents) and very very little is left. And Paul had no idea he was writing Scripture - his focus lay with the imminent Coming and Kingdom of God.
  

  Doug
  
• 
  17

  Only 144,000 saved in 2000 years?

  by LevelThePlayingField in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  so i phoned an elder in the cong and asked him: "when did the calling for the great crowd start, was it 1935?

  he said, "no, i think i remember a convention talk about 1950.

  " so anyway, i said, "so then let's say in the 20th century right?

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  Doug Mason

  As I understand it, all people who did not get the opportunity to become a follower of the WTS will get their chance by being resurrected during the "1000 years" and being given that opportunity.

  Let's guess that means 10 billion people would be given that chance to obey the Watch Tower Society.
  

  If 1 million were to be resurrected each and every day, imagine the task awaiting the "faithful", knowing that another million will pop out of the depths. And how many years would that go on for?! (Let's say, 30 years.) How would the "faithful few JWs manage?
  

  Sounds like pure bliss, not!

  Doug
  
• 
  6

  “The Babylonian Exile shaped the future”

  by Doug Mason in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  the theme of my study, the babylonian exile shaped the future, is simple:.

  (1) the hebrews considered themselves to be gods chosen people, yet israel had been dispersed by the assyrians and judah was dominated by egypt and then by babylon..

  (2) in response to judahs captivity, its prophets promised the nation that god would restore them to their rightful position and that god would forever maintain the throne of david..

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  Doug Mason

  The theme of my Study, “The Babylonian Exile shaped the future”, is simple:

  (1) The Hebrews considered themselves to be “God’s Chosen People”, yet Israel had been dispersed by the Assyrians and Judah was dominated by Egypt and then by Babylon.

  (2) In response to Judah’s captivity, its prophets promised the nation that God would restore them to their rightful position and that God would forever maintain the throne of David.

  (3) When exiles returned from Babylon, they set about creating a nation that was faithful to God.

  (4) Centuries passed but the Hebrews remained oppressed by successive Gentile powers. In response, the Jews anticipated imminent divine intervention.

  (5) Followers of Jesus Christ applied the prophets’ promises to their leaders and to themselves, anticipating an imminent divine intervention.

  (6) In every succeeding century, people kept expecting divine intervention during their life.

  In this way, the neo-Babylonian Exile casts its shadow forward throughout history.

  It is available at: http://www.jwstudies.com/The_Babylonian_Exile_shaped_the_future.pdf

  Doug
• 
  7

  The mythical meaning of the “Lord’s Supper” was revealed to Paul by Christ, not by any man

  by Doug Mason in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  the following is from: christian beginnings, geza vermes pages 91, 92, 98.

  paul inherited from his predecessors a second great cult practice, the communal meal, referred to as the breaking of the bread as well as thanksgiving or eucharist in greek.

  as in the case of baptism, paul supplied a new meaning to the community meal and turned it into an imitation and repetition of the lords supper.

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  2. 
  3. 
• 

  Doug Mason

  The following is from: Christian Beginnings, Geza Vermes pages 91, 92, 98

  Paul inherited from his predecessors a second great cult practice, the communal meal, referred to as the ‘breaking of the bread’ as well as ‘thanksgiving’ or eucharist in Greek. As in the case of baptism, Paul supplied a new meaning to the community meal and turned it into an imitation and repetition of the ‘Lord’s Supper’. …

  Paul implies that the mythical significance of this meal was revealed to him directly by Christ: ‘I received from the Lord what I also handed on to you’ (1 Cor. 11:23). He does not say that it came to him through apostolic tradition as the story of the death, burial and resurrection of the Saviour: ‘I handed over to you what I in turn had received’ (1 Cor. 15:3). If my understanding is correct, the mystical significance of the Last Supper must not be attributed to the Synoptic evangelists composing their accounts between ad 70 and 100, but to Paul writing in the early 50s. It seems that the idea entered the tradition of the Gospels of Mark and Matthew through Luke, Paul’s disciple, whose Last Supper account mirrors that of his teacher. Only Paul and Luke mention Jesus’ command relating to the repetition of the ritual. For Paul the rite comprised a twofold allegory: the participation of the believers in the redemptive acts of the death and resurrection of Christ, and their assimilation into the mystical body of Jesus and the church. … The breaking of the bread or the ‘Lord’s Supper’, as perceived through Paul’s eyes, became the cornerstone of the cultic edifice of Gentile Christianity in his day and has remained so ever since.

  None of the letters of Paul include a general code of behaviour for members of his churches. As a rule, he offered them, in the concluding part of several of his letters, a long or short list of moral rules inspired by, and reflecting, the Jewish ethics of the age….

  It is remarkable that neither the Pastoral Epistles nor the Teaching of the Twelve Apostles assign any particular role to the bishops and presbyters in the conduct of the Lord’s Supper. Their duties were exclusively didactic and pastoral. The Eucharist was a communal ceremony and the other principal rite, baptism, also could be administered by anyone.
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  16

  The canonised Old Testament is no different from the Apocrypha except with more scary fables and mythology

  by fukitol in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  the apocryphal books are accepted by catholics in their douay version as inspired of god, but rejected by the rest of christianity?.

  why?.

  when you examine the reasons for and against acceptance of the apocrypha as divinely inspired or not, it dawns on you that the traditionally accepted 39 books of the hebrew scriptures are nothing but the same sort of stuff as the more recent apocryphal books are, with the only difference being that the 39 much older ot books contain a lot more scary stories, fables and mythology invented by the ancient jewish priesthood to frighten their followers into fear and obedience and continued giving of meat sacrifices for the priests to eat.. ultimately, the ot can be summarised as nothing but a mixture of relatively accurate historical jewish war histories and genealogies, such as the aprocrypha is, mingled with scary stories made up by the ancient jewish priests and scribes..

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  Doug Mason

  Connie,

  Hippo is in Algeria, North Africa. A Synod was held at that time, not a Council. And the decision made in North Africa corresponds with the canon later accepted by the Church of Rome. I presume but do not know if Rome was invited to Hippo.

  The power base of early Christianity lay in North Africa - Carthage and Alexandria in particular, with the Eastern Church having great influence (as per the Council of Nicea, where Rome was an observer only).

  The 4th and 5th centuries saw the bloodiest conflicts between Christians, based solely on doctrinal differences (think of the current civil war among Muslim sects, but many times worse). These conflicts weakened the Christian Church's hold in North Africa, enabling the Muslims to take over, and Christianity moved northwards to Europe, and thus Christianity became a European religion, with its Middle Eastern origins taken over by European cultures.

  Doug
  
• 
  16

  The canonised Old Testament is no different from the Apocrypha except with more scary fables and mythology

  by fukitol in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  the apocryphal books are accepted by catholics in their douay version as inspired of god, but rejected by the rest of christianity?.

  why?.

  when you examine the reasons for and against acceptance of the apocrypha as divinely inspired or not, it dawns on you that the traditionally accepted 39 books of the hebrew scriptures are nothing but the same sort of stuff as the more recent apocryphal books are, with the only difference being that the 39 much older ot books contain a lot more scary stories, fables and mythology invented by the ancient jewish priesthood to frighten their followers into fear and obedience and continued giving of meat sacrifices for the priests to eat.. ultimately, the ot can be summarised as nothing but a mixture of relatively accurate historical jewish war histories and genealogies, such as the aprocrypha is, mingled with scary stories made up by the ancient jewish priests and scribes..

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  Doug Mason

  opusdei,

  Those early Christians were focused on the person, now known as Jesus Christ. The initial Christians were not interested in writing - even their Leader Jesus left nothing in writing. The earliest written material comes from 49 CE by the Apostle Paul - who never witnessed Jesus. Indeed, none of the writers either saw or heard Jesus.

  Paul's writings were local instructions covering specific topics, never intended to be read as Scripture. This attitude gradually changed as we see in the letters falsely attributed to Peter, written about 150 CE.

  Paul was focused completely on local issues because he fully expected Jesus to return during his own lifetime. Paul had no vision for a long future( which is one reason we know he did not write those letters that discuss organisational matters, such as the appointment of elders.)
  

  When they started to document their thoughts, these writers searched the Hebrew texts with the sole intent of supporting their predetermined ideas about a Person - Jesus Christ. So they selectively quoted texts that they could twist to mean that the Hebrew texts applied to Jesus. So they did not quote texts because they considered them to be "inspired".

  The writers of the NT never claim that their writings were "inspired". The sole text brought up by Fundamentalists uses a unique word "theopneustos" - literally meaning "God-breathed", but used only once (by someone who pretended to be Paul - so much for his/her inspiration).

  A small but very interesting book, "A High View of Scripture?" by Allert puts a lot of this into perspective.

  Investigate "Higher Criticism".

  Doug
  
• 
  16

  The canonised Old Testament is no different from the Apocrypha except with more scary fables and mythology

  by fukitol in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  the apocryphal books are accepted by catholics in their douay version as inspired of god, but rejected by the rest of christianity?.

  why?.

  when you examine the reasons for and against acceptance of the apocrypha as divinely inspired or not, it dawns on you that the traditionally accepted 39 books of the hebrew scriptures are nothing but the same sort of stuff as the more recent apocryphal books are, with the only difference being that the 39 much older ot books contain a lot more scary stories, fables and mythology invented by the ancient jewish priesthood to frighten their followers into fear and obedience and continued giving of meat sacrifices for the priests to eat.. ultimately, the ot can be summarised as nothing but a mixture of relatively accurate historical jewish war histories and genealogies, such as the aprocrypha is, mingled with scary stories made up by the ancient jewish priests and scribes..

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  Doug Mason

  For a comprehensive and detailed listing of "quotations, allusions and parallels to the New Testament", see "Ancient Texts for New Testament Studies: A Guide to the Background Literature", pages 342 - 409, by Craig A. Evans (Baker Academic, 2005).

  The same book provides a comprehensive summary of "The Old Testament Apocrypha" (pages 9-25) and also of "The Old Testament Pseudepigrapha" (pages 26-75).
  

  Doug